Friday, September 17, 2010
Lee Rourke and Tom McCarthy conversing in the Guardian.
LR: You've said in the past that all art is repetition.That Mark Smith, England's last great poet, and this year's album hasn't been listened to enough. The new Grinderman's quite good too. Plus, with the vinyl, you get a band, kitted out as Achaean warriors, poster. ¶ 5:58 PM
TMcC: Yeah: Joyce's "commodius vicus of recirculation" . . . Or Mark E Smith's three Rs: repetition, repetition and repetition . . .
LR: I'll drink to that. It's like a never-ending transmission that can't be switched off.
TMcC: The transmission thing is important. There's that Kraftwerk song, "I am the receiver and you are the transmitter", or however it goes. One way of thinking about art, or the novel, is that the writer is the transmitter, the originator: I have something to say about the world and I'm going to transmit it. But this isn't how I see it, I see it as exactly the inverse: the writer is a receiver and the content is already out there. The task of the writer is to filter it, to sample it and remix it – not in some random way, but conscientiously and attentively. This is what Heidegger says about poets: to be a poet is to listen before speaking; it's first and foremost a listening and not a speaking. Kafka said it as well: "I write in order to affirm and reaffirm that I have absolutely nothing to say." Writing, or art, is not about having something to say; it's about aspiring to a heightened state of hearing.
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Literature, like philosophy, has a distinctly european heritage. Most Americans are incapable of understanding it or producing it for that matter (with a few exceptions)--when an American writer succeeds, it's usually because he learns to crank out competent sportswriter speak (e.g. Hemingway) or detective-novel prose (Dash Hammett, et al), sci-fi pulp etc. The US has yet to produced a Joyce, or Conrad, or, Dostoyevsky (Pynchon may have tried but however skilled he's far too techie and a freak...maybe Capn Melville, or Poe, perhaps Faulkner approach the euro sensibility...then with Poe, at least read French, latin, etc...he still seems provincial to me tho' a great of sorts)
That probably has to do with education as much as with "kultur". The euro student, at least in the German Gymnasium system, learns latin and greek, and thus is exposed to classics (including philosophical ones), as well as romance languages, usually maths/science, etc.
American students on the other hand are well...they're not in Gymnasium, unless from wealth---they barely have any exposure to foreign languages (spanglish, maybe)...a smattering of cheesy lit--Grapes of Wrath!--and then techie/math courses--and even in regard to the supposed technical/mathematical greatness, America lags behind. Heidegger 's reading Heraclitus, and the catholic canon; Jr. in Encino reads Heroes of the NFL or something. American students know little or nothing about philosophy, or shall we say philosophical and literary Kultur, even after like getting the cliffsnotes to Locke 101 at Encino JC.
Meet a few serious german students--even engineering, pre-med, law--and you discover, first, they know three or four languages fluently, they generally have calculus down by early 20s, and have read greek classics up and down, many novels, a smattering of Kant, Hegel et al, and also have attained mastery in their field. It can be rather embarrassing to the bohemian yank on a rhineland wanderjahr.
That probably has to do with education as much as with "kultur". The euro student, at least in the German Gymnasium system, learns latin and greek, and thus is exposed to classics (including philosophical ones), as well as romance languages, usually maths/science, etc.
American students on the other hand are well...they're not in Gymnasium, unless from wealth---they barely have any exposure to foreign languages (spanglish, maybe)...a smattering of cheesy lit--Grapes of Wrath!--and then techie/math courses--and even in regard to the supposed technical/mathematical greatness, America lags behind. Heidegger 's reading Heraclitus, and the catholic canon; Jr. in Encino reads Heroes of the NFL or something. American students know little or nothing about philosophy, or shall we say philosophical and literary Kultur, even after like getting the cliffsnotes to Locke 101 at Encino JC.
Meet a few serious german students--even engineering, pre-med, law--and you discover, first, they know three or four languages fluently, they generally have calculus down by early 20s, and have read greek classics up and down, many novels, a smattering of Kant, Hegel et al, and also have attained mastery in their field. It can be rather embarrassing to the bohemian yank on a rhineland wanderjahr.
Heidegger's attachment to Holderlin (imagine umlauts) is a bit curious, and alas, I must say somewhat indicative of at least...german nationalism, if not the F-word (ie fascism). Me Deutsch is not great...but I do sense the hellenic beauty in Holderin's lyrics--he certainly "listened" to the greeks.
At the same time, Hol. definitely loves the Fatherland and continually associates germany's struggles with greece (and Hol. was not only pals with Hegel, but a firm supporter of the jacobins, and even Bonaparte, as was--Hegel, at least initially) . Hol. was also quite mad at times, and nearly destitute until some kindly carpenter or something gave him a garret in saxony. Assuming that Heidegger's poetics follow from Hol., MH's poetic Dasein thus seems peculiarly german or "Occidental" as I believe he once said to some marxists...speaking of marxists (even bad ones) Lukacs has an interesting, even appreciative essay on Holderlin and its relation to the rise of the 3rd reich.
At the same time, Hol. definitely loves the Fatherland and continually associates germany's struggles with greece (and Hol. was not only pals with Hegel, but a firm supporter of the jacobins, and even Bonaparte, as was--Hegel, at least initially) . Hol. was also quite mad at times, and nearly destitute until some kindly carpenter or something gave him a garret in saxony. Assuming that Heidegger's poetics follow from Hol., MH's poetic Dasein thus seems peculiarly german or "Occidental" as I believe he once said to some marxists...speaking of marxists (even bad ones) Lukacs has an interesting, even appreciative essay on Holderlin and its relation to the rise of the 3rd reich.
I think a major difference between European and USA students is that there is more leveling through the end of high school in the USA - all the kids should learn the same. In Europe they are more likely to split the kids into trade schools and on track for college sooner, the college bound are more likely to do calculus and philosophy, that USA seniors.
Isn't it now the case that in the US most good students planning on going to college are doing AP calculus, AP English and so forth? In effect doing their freshman year of college in High School? Often doing release time work in actual colleges?
This was a huge shock to me when I came down here from Canada where nothing like this was offered. (They are really big into mainstreaming students there - in fact the honors curriculum was dropped after I graduated so they don't even offer advanced curriculums of the same subjects)
This was a huge shock to me when I came down here from Canada where nothing like this was offered. (They are really big into mainstreaming students there - in fact the honors curriculum was dropped after I graduated so they don't even offer advanced curriculums of the same subjects)
There are a lot of AP classes in some of the high schools I'm famliar with, but they are not required for getting into college in general - reducing college from 4 to 3 years is financially rewarding. And there are very few practical/trade skills being taught in high schools. Even suggesting that a student may not be destined for university is somewhat politically incorrect.
True. The use of college degrees as a litmus test by employers has definitely had some negative effects. And I agree that vo-tec type trades should be taught in high school rather than the rather pitiful shop classes we get. A good welder is a pretty good trade for someone not suited for college. They really are sought after.
All that said though I guess I was more thinking that the US really has embraced high school for advanced students in a way many other cultures have not. One can argue they don't do it well across the board - and wealthier school districts tend to do much better here.
Ironically a lot of these problems (including the dismissal attitude towards art and music) is more a problem of the federalization of education and the incentives it puts into play. Unless you go into a magnet or montessori school then ones choices in public school are limited in ways they aren't in Europe (or even Canada, despite the AP/honors caveats I gave)
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All that said though I guess I was more thinking that the US really has embraced high school for advanced students in a way many other cultures have not. One can argue they don't do it well across the board - and wealthier school districts tend to do much better here.
Ironically a lot of these problems (including the dismissal attitude towards art and music) is more a problem of the federalization of education and the incentives it puts into play. Unless you go into a magnet or montessori school then ones choices in public school are limited in ways they aren't in Europe (or even Canada, despite the AP/honors caveats I gave)
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